Curse

FrogDevourer · Jun 30, 2005, 10:40 AM // 10:40

Although I like this update, it won't do much for me. As a casual player, I'm not an elite PvPer, and my guild is more about fun than winning long streaks of GvG. I can do an occasional Tomb or GvG, but not much more.

However what I like in GW is to play with a lot of varied builds, to change my profession, and my role in he group. For this, the update won't help me. It will be a hundred times faster to unlock what I need in PvE. Basically I'll use the faction reward only for a few components/superiors I still need, as those are randomly unlocked in PvE.

Personally I have no grudge against a system which is mostly aimed at top competitive players but I regret that skill faction price is so high. One of the coolest feature in this game is the variety of builds you can make. Having access to more skills ensures variety. So unlocking skills should be made *really* easier. This update doesn't help you unlock skills faster. Superiors and components are unlocked faster due the random PvE drops, but assuredly not skills.

It's a LOT faster to be powerleveled/rushed through missions & outposts. But even playing PvE normally, in less than 24h, you'll unlock all the skills you need in 2 professions, including elites, and you'll have spare points for experimental skills.

gabby2600 · Jun 30, 2005, 10:42 AM // 10:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by PieXags

Yeah I know. Just agitated is all. 5:15am now. Can't sleep.

And yeah, I'd call it balanced. PvE players who attend high-end PvP will have gone through just as many hours learning and preparing their PvE characters, except they'll actually be playing both portions of the game then. Not only half.

But...if you're still arguing that it's not skill, it's time played...well I fail to see how that has anything to do with this argument. The more skill you have, the faster you'll get faction points typically. And afterall, if you're that skilled, wouldn't you be able to do really good with the premade characters available to you...?

If winning PvP is THAT dependant on having all the skills and runes, then skill has absolutely nothing to do with PvP at all. You either have the skill set or you don't. If it's not all dependant on the skill set and some skill DOES matter, then why does unlocking all the skills so quickly matter?

From what I can tell, people don't want to work for things---they want it NOW. And some how, having everything really quickly will make it more skill-based...? Sorry, not if it's that dependant on having the skills in the first place.

Amen

I have had PvPer say skills and unlocks arn't important, then if thats they case why do the they need them all so fast. And I just have to go to the HoH and shout, 'LFG: I have no skills, runes or upgrades unlocked, but I'm a very skilled Gamer.' You would be laughed of the server.

Their is a contradiction here in what the PvPers say and what they want, and sadly it's pushing the game away from being skill based to beign unlock based.

PieXags · Jun 30, 2005, 10:45 AM // 10:45

I know what you mean Frog.

And I honestly think that's the main reason behind all the complaining.

People KNOW they don't need all the skills and what not to do good, they know they don't need that superior rune. But they want them all quickly anyways. Why? Because it's convinient. It's nice to be able to fiddle faddle around with your attributes and skill sets at will.

But the devs never said anything about being able to have all the skills and attributes right off the bat. No, they said you'd be able to compete using skill, not hours played.

And in this new system of PvP, it's your skill that unlocks things for you. So if your skill and strategy is good enough to unlock things, then the game's doing it's job IMO.

Ollj · Jun 30, 2005, 10:47 AM // 10:47

o m g.
All those stupid "its unballanced" whiners are so funny

tastegw · Jun 30, 2005, 10:52 AM // 10:52

all i know is, i love it.

rankor's forge has the elite skill preist, it has ever elite skill in the game for 3000 faction points each.

i was pvping last night for about 2 hours and got 600 points in tombs. this is alot better then farming fissure of woe just to get some exp to buy a sig of capture and then use that capture to go farm your elite. im sayin this cause fissure can get boring if you have done it many times as myself.

no pvp match is the same, so its allways fun. atleast to me.

im liking this system.

PieXags · Jun 30, 2005, 10:53 AM // 10:53

Now I'm not going to call them stupid or anything.

But simply by giving out examples here, and reading examples from others.

It's obvious that the math of "7-8 hours for one skill" and similar numbers are TERRIBLY flawed. As I said, no amount of the "math" you can do here will accurately give you the real numbers you'll receive. And I'd have to say that based on what I'm hearing from others...including some guild mates, yeah, nowhere near 7-8 hours for a skill. Most have said doing well in the tombs will get you a skill or two in two to three hours depending on your success.

Have to say it again.

Try it out, and then see what there is to complain about.

Schorny · Jun 30, 2005, 11:51 AM // 11:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by Elythor

I wouldn't see this as an abuse/exploit. Since they are that good anyway, they deserve to have faction points to unlock stuff. Besides, the 2 week cool down rule means you can't just create guilds on the fly and benefit immediately from it.

I have no problem with other people gaining faction points en masse, but if the top guilds did this, the newer or lower guilds get bashed. How can a new guild stand against these top guys in a GvG?

One could also don't create a new guild but lose a few times, so the enemies are getting easier.

200 points for an easy win are better than 500 for a tough fight.

But I'm sure anet thought about that and there is a way they will counter this (if this is really going to happen, which I don't know, I just consider it a possibility).

I don't want to make this update bad: it is great. This point is the only thing I'm a bit worried about. But if the top guilds are just start to fight each other more and stronger it will be great (don't forget: some time we'll get a replay feature to see these fights

)

The faction points are great. Of course we can discuss all night long about if one kill shall give 4 or 2 points and such stuff - but people: open your eyes: you wanted this, and here it is. Consider: You played PvP all the time and now you can do it still and get a reward for it. You won't unlock all skills with one HoH win or whatever you expect, but you just do all the stuff you did before and unlock runes and skills faster. Stop whining and think about it first. You get faction points for free, because you do what you have done all day long: PvP. So faction points are a gift to you, you don't need to do anything to get them.

Just tell me: how can this be bad.

Ashleigh McMahon · Jun 30, 2005, 11:55 AM // 11:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ellestar

Please join a guild and get more faction points per hour by playing GvG... I mean, come on, should i tell it to every whiner on these forums? IMHO it's obvious.

Infact I do have a guild.

Were just one of the unfortunate ones not yet to have a guild hall :P.

I'm not whining, i'm just letting my opinion loose.

Regards, Ashleigh.

spikydude · Jun 30, 2005, 12:22 PM // 12:22

The new rewards system is so you can get something for doing PvP. Anet gives you this option, you should be happy that it exists and try it out for a week or two before complaining about its flaws. Sheesh give them a break, they're trying to make you happy.

As far as unlocking regular skills are concerned, I think it's better if you do it through PvE. But as far as weapons upgrades and runes are concerned, I would use the new system to unlock them for my pvp characters.

Mormegil · Jun 30, 2005, 12:27 PM // 12:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by Schorny

I have no problem with other people gaining faction points en masse, but if the top guilds did this, the newer or lower guilds get bashed. How can a new guild stand against these top guys in a GvG?

By playing effective builds, by doing some clever teamplay, by gaining skill and experience through several GvG to reduce the ability gap.

Oh, and btw...1000 faction points calculated in 7-8 hours? Are you guys nuts or what? I got 2500+ faction points in 2 hours last night, playing some casual GvG. If your Guild isn't even decent, Anet can't do nothing about it. If you don't even have the time to play together effectively, well, that happens (real life exists for everyone), no one will blame you, but please, stop whining like crybabies.

Weezer_Blue · Jun 30, 2005, 12:34 PM // 12:34

3000/40 = 75

75 conscecutive wins in the Tombs to get a single elite skill or superior rune.
On an average, each match in the tombs lasts around 10 minutes to 40 minutes (you know you've dealt with stand offs at burial mounds. Don't deny it). I'm pretty sure I could go to the underworld, get a skill point, buy a SoC, go up to granite citadel from Droknar's Forge (laughing at priest of balthazar on the way), go out into mineral springs, and capture Shield of Judgement, all within the time it would take to earn it through PvP... Tack on a 0 after the Faction rewards for each match, and it will be balanced, but still annoying, as we shouldn't have to earn anything at all.

Black Forsaken · Jun 30, 2005, 12:42 PM // 12:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by Weezer_Blue

Need to recruit some people for our guild so we can get back to GvGing. Unfortunatly, our faction per win will probably be on the low end, since in our days of inactivity, it has declined very quickly.

LOL Joe maybe y'all shouldn't have booted me......Guardian has defected also... HAHA the evil plan is working all we need now is Darker...cept hes never on

I thought the officers of the DA were away playing Gunz at least thats what Joh told me

Mormegil · Jun 30, 2005, 12:45 PM // 12:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by Weezer_Blue

3000/40 = 75

75 conscecutive wins in the Tombs to get a single elite skill or superior rune.
On an average, each match in the tombs lasts around 10 minutes to 40 minutes (you know you've dealt with stand offs at burial mounds. Don't deny it). I'm pretty sure I could go to the underworld, get a skill point, buy a SoC, go up to granite citadel from Droknar's Forge (laughing at priest of balthazar on the way), go out into mineral springs, and capture Shield of Judgement, all within the time it would take to earn it through PvP... Tack on a 0 after the Faction rewards for each match, and it will be balanced, but still annoying, as we shouldn't have to earn anything at all.

Stop talking about Tombs. You could get 2000+ faction points with a decent Guild in 2-3 hours of GvG. Yesterday night we were just six and played with two henchies. Hilarious.

Anarkii · Jun 30, 2005, 12:50 PM // 12:50

yes, as someone pointed out...this will make GvG much more common than it is right now. They needed something to live upto the name "Guild Wars" and this update will do it.

We already have favor of the gods and sigils tied up with HoH..so factions with GvG balances that out.

I think this update is very balanced.

Weezer_Blue · Jun 30, 2005, 01:15 PM // 13:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mormegil

Stop talking about Tombs. You could get 2000+ faction points with a decent Guild in 2-3 hours of GvG. Yesterday night we were just six and played with two henchies. Hilarious.

With the recent shittiness of Guild Wars, I can't seem to find a point where 8 players in my guild are on at the same time. Hell... I can't gather 4 so that with henchmen, we can atleast have a full team. As winning the Hall of Heroes is a lot harder than winning Guild vs Guild, then it's obviously not balanced much. Yes... I know the game's called "Guild Wars". But if it was really centered on "Guild Wars", then we wouldn't even have to unlock stuff...

Bu7ch · Jun 30, 2005, 01:28 PM // 13:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by Weezer_Blue

With the recent shittiness of Guild Wars, I can't seem to find a point where 8 players in my guild are on at the same time. Hell... I can't gather 4 so that with henchmen, we can atleast have a full team. As winning the Hall of Heroes is a lot harder than winning Guild vs Guild, then it's obviously not balanced much. Yes... I know the game's called "Guild Wars". But if it was really centered on "Guild Wars", then we wouldn't even have to unlock stuff...

Remind us all why you still hang out here then? Honestly, I've never seen anyone bitch and moan about a game yet still post religiously on the forums for said game.

Schorny · Jun 30, 2005, 01:43 PM // 13:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bu7ch

Remind us all why you still hang out here then? Honestly, I've never seen anyone bitch and moan about a game yet still post religiously on the forums for said game.

Some people play soccer, some play online games, some whine.

It is just a hobby. Something you do, when you are bored. Can't take such guys serious.

Snowman · Jun 30, 2005, 01:43 PM // 13:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by Weezer_Blue

With the recent shittiness of Guild Wars, I can't seem to find a point where 8 players in my guild are on at the same time. Hell... I can't gather 4 so that with henchmen, we can atleast have a full team. As winning the Hall of Heroes is a lot harder than winning Guild vs Guild, then it's obviously not balanced much. Yes... I know the game's called "Guild Wars". But if it was really centered on "Guild Wars", then we wouldn't even have to unlock stuff...

Is this "guild" yours?.. if so then you should give up leadership to someone who knows how to run a guild.

If you are part of this "guild".. then its a shitty guild and you should look for another one.

Your problem has nothing to do with the game mechanics but with your inability to be part of a guild that is decent enough to arrange guild battles.. or is decent enough to recruit more people.., in fact.. the chances are, if you are having difficulties with this, then you are probably just a n00b anyway. well, scrub the probably.. you must be! if you have never played a guild battle with all your members (and not henchmen)

So if your not playing guild battles.. why the hell do you care about unlocking PVP stuff?.. your obviously still learning.

The Snowman

Mormegil · Jun 30, 2005, 01:52 PM // 13:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by Schorny

Some people play soccer, some play online games, some whine.

It is just a hobby. Something you do, when you are bored. Can't take such guys serious.

Come on. How can you take Be Dac, StandardAI (an ex-botter who was even banned by Arenanet) and Weezer_Blue seriously?

It is a hobby, of course. They're in an undercover guild tagged IHL.

I
Hate
Life.

Moskel · Jun 30, 2005, 02:03 PM // 14:03

I played for just around an hour last night and have over 1000 faction. We do a lot of GvG and rather than agonizing for 2 hours trying to setup the perfect team we just let our members build a character they play well and we go in and work as a team.

Sure we might not win every match but we do pretty well and playing a close match and losing is a lot more fun than sitting in the guild hall debating what the 2nd ranger on the team is going to take for their 8th skill to create the best combo with the 5th skill on the 1st warrior.

On the time it takes you can't compare time spent to get a skill while levelling up a character, you have to consider time spent after you are L20 and out of skill points in PvE. Sure you can earn 20k XP in 1-2 hours in FoW or UW if you have a group that completes the quests without dying (just like in 1-2 hours of GvG or HoH you can get 1000 faction with a group that wins).

Skills are one thing though, the weapon upgrades/runes are the key thing, how long in PvE do you think you could play before you find a +30 fortitude hilt for an axe, sword, hammer, and staff? I have over 500 hours and I don't have one for any (my highest is +27 for a staff). My hours include TONS of early Flesh Golem farming too where it would drop probably 3-5 purple/gold a run and maybe another 3-5 blues. I've also identified probably 50, maybe 100 gold armors and I still have a significant number of Superior Runes left to unlock, now I can play for a fixed amount of time and guarentee I won't unlock Superier Wilderness Survival for the 11th time.